I am thinking of making a Quenya course for English speakers. Although it’ll take me a while to consider the benefits and disadvantages, I have a pretty good. QUENYA Una mujer se paró enfrente de Esbelia. –¡Quiubo, mami! Esbelia – Mucho gusto, repitió Quenya. De modo que Suleica debería aprender de mí.

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I am thinking of making a Quenya course for English speakers. Although it’ll take me a while to consider the benefits and disadvantages, I have a pretty good knowledge of Quenya. After I reach fluency, what would you all think of me suggesting this course? Would adding Quenya make the amount of fictional languages one too many?

Anyways, please let me know if you’d like this course, or if you too speak Quenya. I posted in this thread before that I would consider applying as a contributor after I had studied the language a bit more.

But after spending several months diving into Quenya deeper than I have before, I am convinced that a Quenya course for Duolingo would be very difficult and would need to be done with much care. I still think it would be amazing but I am not sure that I trust myself with the burden.

The problem is that Tolkien’s languages were made for his own amusement and not for practical use. Not only does this mean that the vocabulary is limited, it also means that we know nothing about discourse in these languages and furthermore because it was Tolkien’s private hobby for decades before Quenya and Sindarin were used in the LOTR, there are many different versions of these languages and even the publication of the LOTR did not stop him from tinkering with them. Even the iconic greeting that Frodo uses “Elen sila lumenn’ omentielvo” was changed in later editions.

The earlier form was “Elen sila lumenn’ omentielmo. Which brings up the point of why it would be so difficult perhaps not impossible, but extremely tricky to create a Duolingo course on Quenya. So which ending should be used in the course? The original or the one Tolkien used later? Indeed, the pronouns in Quenya tend to be quite slippery and Tolkien changed his mind about them and many other things just about every time he sat down to write something!

Mixing and matching from different documents and different periods of Tolkien’s life does not accurately represent Quenya, it creates a new language based on Quenya “Neo-Quenya” which might derive from Tokien’s language but is emphatically not the language that Tolkien created.

And the problems only start there. Many aspects of Quenya grammar are fraught with this type of fluctuation in Tolkien’s many conceptions of the language. Any website out there claiming that it can teach you to write or speak Quenya is actually teaching you that author’s particular amalgamation of the language, a “Neo-Quenya” version created by them and based on Tolkien but definitively not Tolkien. In my opinion, the problem is even worse for Sindarin.

Quenya generally has much better documentation and a much longer history. If you go to the Duolingo Incubator, you will see that you can apply as a Sindarin course contributor.

Como se diz (…) em Quenya?

I fear that if such a course were made, though, it would actually necessarily be a form of Neo-Sindarin. Indeed, if the quenyq were based on David Salo’s Sindarin that is used in the movies, I would have to decry it as something wholly different from Tolkien’s Sindarin.

For a few of Salo’s book on Sindarin, see. If you want an even more comprehensive explanation of the several points I have made above about why a course in Quenya and even more so in Sindarin would be extremely difficult and should only be attempted with the utmost care, consideration, aprendef trepidation, the following article is a must read:.

In short, I think Quenya and Sindarin can be used for composition in interesting ways if the writer is aprendfr and has a deep understanding of the histories of the languages and is able to take that into account in their composition. But I am not convinced that this can be taught effectively through a Duolingo course. The course would end up being overly simplistic to avoid errors or to constrain itself to only the most basic and consistent aprendrr of grammar and therefore aprendee of much help to the aspiring elvish student or it would be a full language course that necessarily deviates from Tolkien’s Quenya and instead uses a form of Neo-Quenya that does not necessarily conform to Tolkien’s conception of the language.


Yeah, I was gonna say Unless you’re an elf, of course. I absolutely agree with you. Any course made qprender Quenya is going to be imperfect because we do not know Tolkien’s final decisions on many aspects of his grammar, and therefore Quenya enthusiasts have to do too much guessing, which means that everyone’s Quenya is a little bit different.

Como se diz (…) em Quenya? | Quenya

Even the Quenya words for twelve and boy are not specifically attested, but simply educated guesses. Learning Quenya is a bit like making a puzzle — you have to gather all the little scraps and pieces you can find to create a coherent picture, and despite your best efforts the picture still isn’t going to be completely coherent.

In addition, there’s apparently still a lot of unpublished Tolkien material floating out in the ether, which is frustrating for all the Tolkien geeks in the world. To know that the clarification to a bit of sketchy grammar may exist out there, but that we can’t get our hands on it First, take a look at http: Tolkien seems to have based Quenya on Finnish see http: Duolingo should wait until it already teaches Finnish and Welsh, and until it has the permission of the Tolkien Estate see http: Adding Finnish and Welsh first will be more respectful to Finnish and Welsh cultures, and make Quenya and Sindarin easier to learn for Lord of the Rings fans.

Quenya will be easier for you to learn if you already know some Finnish, after all. Actually it might be said to be composed on a Latin basis with two other main ingredients that happen to give me ‘phonaesthetic’ pleasure: It is however less consonantal than any of the three. This language is High-elven or in its own terms Quenya Elvish ” J. This is derived from an origin common to it and Quenya, but the changes have been deliberately devised to give it a linguistic character very like though not identical with British-Welsh: So if someone possibly Christopher Tolkien was willing to finish one or both of the Elvin languages with permission from the Tolkien Estate using the real languages as a base, we would have a complete language for a course.

Well, Welsh is already here, so Sindarin is from what I’ve heard in an even worse state, and I just won’t say anything about the other Tolkien languages.

Anyway, it’s not like the course would hurt anyone. The Tolkien Estate will probably have to give it an okay, but after that a short course would be viable.

It is difficult to interpret Quenya because it was always a work in progress. Tolkien always changed his mind about a million little things, and some things he mentioned but never showed to the public.

But I think I can do it if I interpret some things.

Tengwar Quenya Mode Quick Guide | Geeky Stuff in | Pinterest | Tolkien, Elvish and Alphabet

I just started using Duo a couple months ago and I had this same thought immediately but I wanted to familiarize myself with the site more and finish the Spanish course before I applied.

I taught myself Quenya from the Ardalambion course last year http: For those who don’t know much about the language or have never studied it before and might have reservations about a Quenya course, I will give just a few of my comments. Yes, Quenya is an incomplete language with a small vocabulary and JRR Tolkien did change his mind about a few grammatical details throughout his life. However, the course I linked to above is great because it actually explains these thorny details pretty clearly and the author explains what he thinks are the best solutions to these problems to arrive at a third age Quenya contemporary with the LOTR.

And by the end of the course you can say just about anything you want given the limited vocabulary without encountering too many of these grammatical uncertainties. And although the vocabulary is limiting I haven’t counted but I would estimate between verified wordsthis can actually be an advantage to the Duo course. Whereas you can finish the Spanish or German tree and have a decent knowledge of those languages but have a woefully small vocabulary compared to a native speaker, the Quenya and Sindarin course can boast that someone who completes the whole tree will have a complete mastery of not just the grammar but also the entire known vocabulary.

This small vocabulary might turn some people off but I actually think it’s sort of an appealing selling point to the Duo course. The only trouble I could see is that the tree will probably be rather small and the course short so the development team will just have to be very creative in writing as many unique sentences as possible to keep the learners interested.


Although I don’t know much about Sindarin, my short study of this other elvish tongue gave me the impression that the grammar of Quenya is actually much more certain and consistent than Sindarin although perhaps a more knowledgeable Quenya and Sindarin scholar could provide more depth or dispute to this point.

So if Duo has a Sindarin course listed in their Incubator, I think we should rally some Quenya speakers to catch up and get moving on our own Duo course.

I’m going to take a little more time but not too much to review my Quenya notes and write an application but I will be applying to the Incubator very soon. Let’s make this course happen!

I’ve used the Ardalambion course too! It’s a really great resource. The Council of Elrond also a Quenya course but unfortunately it’s surface-level and more simple than Arda’s. I hope someday we could have both of these dialects. Nothing wrong with made up languages, provided they are not the only one sprender learn and that is only an opinion. Actually, even though it is more of wuenya code that a language, I can read gnomish from Artimus Fowl without a key.

I want to kill my old account because i left my old high school Assuming you still remember the login info for that account, log into it and then mouse over its name on the upper right and click settings. At the bottom of that page is a link titled “Deactivate my account. I already have been learning them on other websites.

I can even say “Greetings” in Entish! Which takes a long time by the way. Aprendee Elvish Linguistic Fellowship ELF has a nice website with many resources, including their fantastic journal Vinyar Tengwar all of the past editions are available in a nicely bound reprinted book. Parma Eldalamberon is the other major journal about Tolkein’s languages and is also very good, although the website is frustratingly terrible and out of date. Many people qeunya like to use Ardalambion as a source.

I would also support this as an excellent source on all of Tolkien’s languages but read my caveat below concerning his Quenya course. Thorsten Renk also has a good website with Sindarin and Adunaic courses, but against see my caveat below concerning these courses.

And now the caveat: Ardalambion’s Quenya course and Thorsten Renk’s courses auenya great fun and good resources but I will stress that even by the end of the courses, you will not be fluent in any of those languages Quenya, Sindarin, or Adunaic.

They are both very open about which parts of their courses are extrapolations or are built upon flimsy evidence and if you are fine accepting their educated guesses, parender can write a bit in any of these languages, but still you won’t be able to order your dinner at a restaurant and chat with your friends in any form of Elvish or Adunaic.

There are far too many gaps in our knowledge about the grammars of these languages and even much of qkenya vocab. And what we do know is subject to change, as some of the grammar has qhenya pieced together from different times in Tolkien’s life and Tolkien was constantly tweaking his languages.

So really, while those courses are great fun, they don’t perfectly represent “Tolkein’s languages”, they represent “Neo-Quenya” and “Neo-Sindarin”, i. You can have a lot of fun with Tolkien’s languages and I encourage you to do so I certainly have! If anyone claims they can “speak” or are “fluent” in Quenya or Sindarin, they are probably actually learning “Neo-Quenya” or “Neo-Sindarin”, sometimes without even realizing it.

If you are careful you can compose some fairly aprenedr works in those languages, it just takes a lot of work. I think Duolingo should teach it as Neo-Quenya explicitly, it’s aprendee only thing we can get, and although it won’t be tolkien’s language, it will be a lot like it.

Some languages have been returned from death even though not perfectly, and they are now being aprendeg, why couldn’t an artlang be brought back too? But in Quenya there are plenty of neo-versions, i knew of 3 just local to sweden due to roleplaying friends. These 3 are totaly different but still based on the same Quenya, but made “easier to speak” in different ways.